TCAs
Question:
broken link
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The story is on : > www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,846295,00 >I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain .
Response:
I’m sure you realize that there is a difference between physical dependence and addiction. If you don’t, search the Google archives for numerous posts on the topic. Benzos are excellent medications. You taper on, become physically dependent, and if you want to go off, you taper off. As the analogy goes: are insulin-dependent pateints addicted? Are the many people on this ng who take pain meds daily addicted? Are people on antidepressants addicted? Please think about and learn the difference between "addiction" and proper use of medication before you tell someone not to take an effective medicine. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Martin >"I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather >have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer >drug." >If this is true then your doctor is a real moron. While not a benzo, it >works in similar fashion and is just as addicting and has a very short half >life. Want problems similar to benzo addiction ? >www.benzo.org.uk > I took large doses of Elavil for about ten years to help with daily > headaches and migraines (3-4 per month). Was up to about 200 mg daily. I > moved from Dallas to Ogden, Utah and started seeing a new psychiatrist. >He > asked about the Elavil (I was really depressed) and I told him that it was > for both depression and pain. His personal opinion (and one shared by >many > of his colleagues – he also was a professor of psychiatry for about 10 > years) is that the pain relieving affect of Tricyclic Anti-Depressants is > much overrated. My doctor said that the mood benefits of anti-depressants > is very helpful in pain management, but that the TCAs have too many side > affects. > He took my off the Elavil and Serzone (newer anti-depressant that sucks) >and > put me on Prozac. My mood improved. My headaches did not get any worse, > but over time have gotten much better. > My personal experience with Elavil is that I gained weight, had a hard >time > waking up in the morning, and got really constipated. I’ll never go back >to > the stuff. I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather > have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer > drug. > My psychiatrist still, with the addition of my back pain, has not >mentioned > Elavil or any of its buddies. He interviews me much closer with my back >to > see how my life is going with the pain. He sees how pain can be a monster > in people’s lives unless treated properly. He is totally supportive of me > taking Oxycontin and other meds for breakthrough. (He is an avid skier > also, I really like the guy.) > Martin > > I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about > > the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms > > of chronic pain .
Response:
Martin ….and your wife glad you both found it as thought provoking as I did…and I certainly agree with your feelings…these CAN be wonder drugs,,,when prescribed carefully and monitored closely…not handed out like candy to shut people up… I will keep you in mind as I peruse other sources…but that was a real eye opener to me…as obviously it was to you two…not that it represented "studies" but more like "common sense" that maybe more medical practitioners need to remember they still have… cheers..Martin.. rb Hawki
Response:
Martin "I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer drug." If this is true then your doctor is a real moron. While not a benzo, it works in similar fashion and is just as addicting and has a very short half life. Want problems similar to benzo addiction ? www.benzo.org.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I took large doses of Elavil for about ten years to help with daily > headaches and migraines (3-4 per month). Was up to about 200 mg daily. I > moved from Dallas to Ogden, Utah and started seeing a new psychiatrist. He > asked about the Elavil (I was really depressed) and I told him that it was > for both depression and pain. His personal opinion (and one shared by many > of his colleagues – he also was a professor of psychiatry for about 10 > years) is that the pain relieving affect of Tricyclic Anti-Depressants is > much overrated. My doctor said that the mood benefits of anti-depressants > is very helpful in pain management, but that the TCAs have too many side > affects. > He took my off the Elavil and Serzone (newer anti-depressant that sucks) and > put me on Prozac. My mood improved. My headaches did not get any worse, > but over time have gotten much better. > My personal experience with Elavil is that I gained weight, had a hard time > waking up in the morning, and got really constipated. I’ll never go back to > the stuff. I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather > have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer > drug. > My psychiatrist still, with the addition of my back pain, has not mentioned > Elavil or any of its buddies. He interviews me much closer with my back to > see how my life is going with the pain. He sees how pain can be a monster > in people’s lives unless treated properly. He is totally supportive of me > taking Oxycontin and other meds for breakthrough. (He is an avid skier > also, I really like the guy.) > Martin > I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about > the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms > of chronic pain .
Response:
The story is on : www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,846295,00 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain .
Response:
If the stuff you’ve been reading is on the web, could you send me the links?? thanks, Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martin > I’m sorry…what I meant to say..do you have a link to the Observer or > whatever..that talked about TCA and pain relief link…personally I have been > reading more and more that other than maybe their help in sleep > disturbances…TCA’s really are not all that effective..if at all..in pain > relief..tho..as with anything..we all are different..so am sure there are some > here who will have different experience.. > Actually I read this week..not sure if it was in a journal or the LA Times > that there is even a lot of controversary about "antidepressants" and what they > actually afford the human organism…perhaps trading the "depression,,,ie > negative for sure response" for a "flat..ie also a negative response"…not to > mention the sexual side effects (which this source quoted as being > significantly higher than previously reported)…I sorta got a mental image of > a sort of zombie…it described how writers had lost the initiative to > write..painters to paint..etc..you know..creativity..while of course not in a > black depression …and also not to mention the weight gain issues…problems > getting off some of these meds…etc etc.. > funny how things change….hopefully for the better?? > rb > Hawki
Response:
Martin.. Actually the LA times on Mondays has a Health section…I am quite sure that is where I read the most recent stuff…will have to see if we still have it…I know the times is available online.. NO..I get a gazillion medical/nursing journals coming thru the house each month..which is why I lose track of what I read WHERE….from now on..I will try and KEEP the article and can at least give you an idea of how to track it down… I must admit I was a bit surprised (no..not personally…since I had experienced all the negative side effects of antideps)…to read that MAYBE it isn’t always such a good idea to just "smother" if that is what we are doing…the emotions//chemicals..whatever…only to later discover that the "zest for life" has also been smothered…has to be a better way… will search for that article..and keep you in mind as I read further…it surely is a fascinating..if not.."depressing" topic (not funny!) rb Hawki
Response:
thanks rb Hawki
Response:
Martin Only for you (grin) would I actually dig thru the trash on thanksgiving Day…but it was the LA Times!!! and I did find it…I can’t provide a link..alas.. But I entered LATimes.com into my browser..hit Health on the left column…then a list of the articles eventually came up…title is "life with depression,,or life with dull feeling"… Unfortunately..when I clicked on the title..I got a screen that said I had to "register"..but that it was free…so I stopped there…but you may want to take the time to do the register stuff…it is an intersting piece..and leaves much to think about…not a scientific study…written by a psychiatrist in Boston.. Just an a clip…"While prozac and others ….increases specific chemical tramissions in some parts of the brain,,it inhibits others elsewhere"……"the cursed feelings are gone…but so are the blessed ones." I found that statement alone to be profound… If you would like…I would be happy to snail mail it to you…but it is just a short piece and you should be able to access it online.. peace…Martin rb Hawki
Response:
I am honored that you’d dig through the trash for me!! (grin – LOL) I registered on latimes.com and looked up this article – very good article. The findings that the journalist wrote out just confirm to me that these are powerful medicines and should only be used when needed. I see some of the folks who post comments in our group who are trying to self-medicate with some of the "internet pharmacies" that require no prescription and I see that this could be disasterous. My wife and I spoke about this article for awhile last night. This stuff is important to us – we have two kids – our older son is 14 and has bipolar disorder, our younger is 10 and has autism. We’ve spent a lot of time and money with psychiatrists, psychologists, the pharmacy, and psychiatric hospitals. For me, anti-depressants (prozac for me) have been a godsend. But, prior to being put on this medicine, my doctor took a long time making sure that the diagnosis of depression was accurate. (A psychiatrist in Dallas started me on anti-depressants 10 years ago, my good doc in Utah changed me to Prozac 4 1/2 years ago.) With me, the "joyous" parts of life weren’t possible anymore, but with proper medication, the joy came back. I’ve known of doctors prescribing anti-depressants without taking time to diagnos the patient or to follow up to see how it is doing. Depression is a very serious disease with a mortality rate of about 10-15% if not treated properly. That is what the medicine is for. There are times when somebody is just "down" for a short period but not truly "depressed". There is a big difference. We have also learned with our son Ben that anti-depressants can be extremely dangerous for somebody with bi-polar disorder. They can "push" the person into a manic phase, which can have deadly consequences. The psychiatric medicines have saved my little family. I have extended family members whose physicians write out Zoloft to be taken "prn" with a prescription that allows enough refills for a year. Pretty scary. There is no monitoring of the patient who is being treated for a disease with that high of a mortality rate. Enough rambling. I’ll print this article and take it to my psychiatrist in January. He’ll find it interesting too! Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martin > Only for you (grin) would I actually dig thru the trash on thanksgiving > Day…but it was the LA Times!!! and I did find it…I can’t provide a > link..alas.. > But I entered LATimes.com into my browser..hit Health on the left column…then > a list of the articles eventually came up…title is "life with depression,,or > life with dull feeling"… > Unfortunately..when I clicked on the title..I got a screen that said I had to > "register"..but that it was free…so I stopped there…but you may want to > take the time to do the register stuff…it is an intersting piece..and leaves > much to think about…not a scientific study…written by a psychiatrist in > Boston.. > Just an a clip…"While prozac and others ….increases specific chemical > tramissions in some parts of the brain,,it inhibits others
elsewhere"……"the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cursed feelings are gone…but so are the blessed ones." > I found that statement alone to be profound… > If you would like…I would be happy to snail mail it to you…but it is just a > short piece and you should be able to access it online.. > peace…Martin > rb > Hawki
Response:
Martin I’m sorry…what I meant to say..do you have a link to the Observer or whatever..that talked about TCA and pain relief link…personally I have been reading more and more that other than maybe their help in sleep disturbances…TCA’s really are not all that effective..if at all..in pain relief..tho..as with anything..we all are different..so am sure there are some here who will have different experience.. Actually I read this week..not sure if it was in a journal or the LA Times that there is even a lot of controversary about "antidepressants" and what they actually afford the human organism…perhaps trading the "depression,,,ie negative for sure response" for a "flat..ie also a negative response"…not to mention the sexual side effects (which this source quoted as being significantly higher than previously reported)…I sorta got a mental image of a sort of zombie…it described how writers had lost the initiative to write..painters to paint..etc..you know..creativity..while of course not in a black depression …and also not to mention the weight gain issues…problems getting off some of these meds…etc etc.. funny how things change….hopefully for the better?? rb Hawki
Response:
I’ll see if my psychiatrist (does not believe that they have the trycyclics (sp???) have the pain benefits) can point me to any literature that supports his views, other than his clinical experience. I don’t see him for 6 weeks, but I’ll drop him a note. He’s a great doc. Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->he article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain . > Hmmm > A lot of us have gone…or still are on this route…for some time now…so > unless they discovered something "new"….do you have a link I can check out??? > thanks > rb > Hawki
Response:
>he article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain .
Hmmm A lot of us have gone…or still are on this route…for some time now…so unless they discovered something "new"….do you have a link I can check out??? thanks rb Hawki
Response:
I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms of chronic pain .
Response:
I took large doses of Elavil for about ten years to help with daily headaches and migraines (3-4 per month). Was up to about 200 mg daily. I moved from Dallas to Ogden, Utah and started seeing a new psychiatrist. He asked about the Elavil (I was really depressed) and I told him that it was for both depression and pain. His personal opinion (and one shared by many of his colleagues – he also was a professor of psychiatry for about 10 years) is that the pain relieving affect of Tricyclic Anti-Depressants is much overrated. My doctor said that the mood benefits of anti-depressants is very helpful in pain management, but that the TCAs have too many side affects. He took my off the Elavil and Serzone (newer anti-depressant that sucks) and put me on Prozac. My mood improved. My headaches did not get any worse, but over time have gotten much better. My personal experience with Elavil is that I gained weight, had a hard time waking up in the morning, and got really constipated. I’ll never go back to the stuff. I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer drug. My psychiatrist still, with the addition of my back pain, has not mentioned Elavil or any of its buddies. He interviews me much closer with my back to see how my life is going with the pain. He sees how pain can be a monster in people’s lives unless treated properly. He is totally supportive of me taking Oxycontin and other meds for breakthrough. (He is an avid skier also, I really like the guy.) Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about > the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms > of chronic pain .
Response:
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